long, convoluted and depressing

[ouroboros]

I feel angry, sad, justified, guilty, upset, sick and a number of other emotions at the moment and I wanted 1) A place to vent and 2) to get people's opinions.

As I believe was said in 'Roz, A loan' money is a sure fire way of ruining a good friendship. I have a friend who I love dearly but who is abominable with money. And I mean seriously seriously bad. Though he'll always pay his rent his is always seriously broke a week or two after payday. I'm not exactly wonderful with the stuff and I understandthe 'act/spend now, think later' mindset but after rent and bills I always make sure I have enough left for the essential stuff. I can always exist till the next paycheck. I may regret one big blow out one weekend meaning I can't do anything the next but I can always 'live'. Anyway this was one of those months, computer, massive blowout, which basically means I am 'living' for the next three weeks. Fine, quite happy about it. As I've mentioned in a few posts I've decided to give up drinking for a month anyway and this is a great opportunity to do it.

Well, this mate has borrowed money from people in the past and has never given it back on time. In fact one person he never even gave it back to at all. I have also witnessed him out on a night out and he will willingly spend his food money or the money he was saving to give back to said person on going on to a club from the bar where we were supposed to be having 'just a couple'. I'm not talking a couple of quid here, I mean loads more booze, illicit substances, taxis home etc etc.

Anyway a few friends have got really really tired of this and have said to me before now 'for god's sake never lend *bleep* money, he never gives it back'. Well in the time I've known this guy I've become a lot closer to him than many of my other friends, we get on really well and never seem to tire of each others company. So quite a few months ago I did lend him some money and he promised he'd give it me back a week later. I could afford it and I've heard people say about money in general before'if you lend someone something always be prepared to not get it back'. Fine. Anyway sure enough the week comes and I call him randomly on the day, not really with that in mind and his phone is switched off. I call his work and they tell me he's not in they don't know where he is, I'm a bit worried so that night I go round to his house and he answers and he tells me he's lost his bag with his phone/bank card/passport et al in it and there's no way he can get any money. I'm like 'oh right' he's like 'I will give it back it'll just have to wait a bit till I get a new card' and I'm like sure ok. About a week later he gives it back. All good. A couple of days later his bag 'turns up'.

Maybe a month or so ago again he's without money and asks if he can borrow some. I can't really afford it this time but I give anyway and I say to him 'I do need this back on x date otherwise I won't be able to do x'. To be honest I probably could have managed but I figure play it safe. He's like 'yeah yeah sure no problem'. Anyway the date come and he gives it back bang on time. I'm thinking cool, he does keep his word when he knows it's important and plus - it's me - we're really close and he'd never try and 'pull a fast one' on me.

SO, now comes the dumb f*ck part, we're out this time last week, both a little drunk and he's run out of money during the night. He's like 'I really want to go on to x club' but I've exceeded my drawing out limit for the day
(which I knew, we'd been shopping that day) can I borrow some. This time I'm like 'ok but I'm not kidding if I don't get this back tomorrow I'm really screwed'. This time it's a case of being able to manage for about a week. He's like 'I promise you'll have it tomorrow'. I'm like 'ok' so I hand it over, he goes onto the club I finish a couple more drinks with another mate and go home. Tomorrow comes and I call and guess what? He lost his bag that night with card/passport (but not phone) in it. But 'the fitter' (something to do with work) is giving him money on Monday and he can give it me then. I'm like 'ok...' but really feeling wary now. Monday comes, fitter didn't show up at work it'll be tomorrow. Tuesday comes, fitter didn't show it'll be Wednesday. You get the picture. Thursday comes and he goes to stay with his boss in a town near us. He'll be back on Saturday morning and he'll have my money for me then. I'm like 'you promise?' he's like 'yeah definitely'. I text him Friday night asking what time he'll be back on Saturday morning. He's like 'I'm going to be straight with you I don't have any money and I won't until pay day'. Three weeks away.

Thus follows a mad panic where I have to do some serious reshuffling of finances - all good but close bloody call.

Plus MASSIVE slanging match on the phone.

I am more annoyed with myself than anything I think but I have had a few friends before were we can lend money freely both ways and it not be a problem. I know they say never lend money between friends but I've done it before and when there is mutual trust I have never once found it to be a problem.

After speaking to a few friends about what's happened this 'bag' and 'fitter' excuse have been used before. I honestly believe he knew full well on Saturday that he wouldn't have the money. One - don't bl**dy lend it then, two - why keep up the lies lies lies until finally admitting it today.

Some really horrible things have been said anyway and it's looking like that's it. At the moment I'm not sorry. But my adrenaline is still pumping. To be honest love him though I did, I have known for a while that I need to put some distance between us, for many reasons. I've been wondering how to do it and seriously how do you tell someone I love you but I don't trust myself when we're together and I don't want to wind up going down the same destructive path as you so I need to back off. I guess this might be the way to do it but I imagine I'm going to feel blummin awful about it all in the next few days or so.

Sigh.

I don't mean to be morose but - is this worth ending the friendship over?

[CatNamedRudy]

The guy is taking advantage of you.

If you don't want to end the friendship over it, simply tell him that you still want to hang out with him but you are never, ever going to loan him money again.

And STICK to IT! Don't lend him money. If you're out clubbing and he has no money, then too bad! Time for him to go home!

If HE chooses to end the friendship, then you weren't really his friend. You were his ATM!

[ouroboros]

If you don't want to end the friendship over it, simply tell him that you still want to hang out with him but you are never, ever going to loan him money again.

Oh believe me you don't have to tell me that! If we are to remain friends then I will never be lending him money again, period. As I said there are some friends you can do this with, he clearly isn't one of them.

If HE chooses to end the friendship, then you weren't really his friend. You were his ATM!

I probably should have mentioned that this guy will pay for my nights out on occasion. When he has money he is very generous. What goes around comes around and friends buy drinks for each other all the time without expecting payment back. It's when it comes to lending a sum that is expected back we have trouble. That's were with this guy its more about his addictions taking priority over anything else. He just can't go without. Something which has only unfortunately just become clear to me.

[Shoryuken]

Going out all the time despite being unable to afford it (knowing he cant really afford it is something he will know as well) sounds like the early stages of alcoholism. Im not going to go into a long-winded, 'high-horse' rant about 'substances' as Im sure many of us have been there, done it, but I will ask this - how often is he out drinking, and how much does he get through on a night out (minus 'substances', whatever they may be) ?

[ouroboros]

Well he once drank every night for a week, that was particularly excessive, he goes out on the town at least twice a week and as to the going out and drinking to the point of not being able to remember what he did or how he got where he woke up probably once a week. As to substances (no high horse rant needed, I understand) whenever he can get his hands on them really. Even on a work night.

See he has had a lot of crap go down recently and though I probably shouldn't help him fuel this by giving him the money its sometimes really hard not to.

I'm no saint but the way he is being is starting to get really scary. I feel like a crap friend if I just walk away but he's not going to stop if he doesn't want to and I can't carry his burden for him.

[Shoryuken]

The problem is that drinking excessively will not solve his problems.. excessive drinking makes you feel down, no matter how good it makes you feel at the time, its a hard cycle to break. Once you break it though, its does a power of good, I know this from personal experience.

How about trying to go out places where theres other things to do but drink? I know it can be hard sometimes, but Im sure if you look you can find something to do during the week, and maybe stick to one moderate night of a weekend, and a quiet couple (and I MEAN a quiet couple, not going out with good intentions and ending up wasted) of drinks one night a week.

As for substances, theres nothing wrong with the odd bit (say on a big night out) IMO, as I say, Im sure a lot of us have been there, but using them day in, day out, be it dope, coke or whatever again isnt an answer to any of lifes problems, they only make it worse, especially things like coke as they give a big high but also a big low after. And leave a big hole in your pocket when used regularly.

Youre right, you cant solve his problems for him, and he cant do anything about it if he doesnt want to, but you can at least try and help break the cycle of drinking lots by offering to do different things possibly ?

[ouroboros]

Yes you are absolutely right, in all of the above. Thing is I have broken the cycle already and suggested 'normal' things, but he just isn't interested. Then there's this blow up which makes it worse but that was more about him lying to me than anything else. I'm sure if he has a 'normal' day with me on say the Friday he'll find someone to have a decadent night with on the Saturday. I guess I can't stop that I can only stop being party to or part of it. Ta for the advice btw.

[Nervosa]

I find that 'a begger, nor borrower, nor lender be' is a sound saying.

I never borrow money off mates, and have never found myself in a position where I've been asked for the lend of money; so therefore can't offer much advice.

But if it were me in your shoes at the moment, I would get what I'm owed off the guy and then tell him to sod off. No point in paying for someone elses to have a good time, meanwhile you're worrying about whether you're going to see that 200 quid ever again.

[Shoryuken]

Yes you are absolutely right, in all of the above. Thing is I have broken the cycle already and suggested 'normal' things, but he just isn't interested. Then there's this blow up which makes it worse but that was more about him lying to me than anything else. I'm sure if he has a 'normal' day with me on say the Friday he'll find someone to have a decadent night with on the Saturday. I guess I can't stop that I can only stop being party to or part of it. Ta for the advice btw.

No problem

If he isnt interested in changing, thats his problem - by all means still go out with him, but be *very* wary of lending the guy money. Dont lend large amounts, or anything you cant afford to not see for a while. Does he pay back eventually, or just hope that people forget about it ?

[ouroboros]

But if it were me in your shoes at the moment, I would get what I'm owed off the guy and then tell him to sod off.

Believe me that's the way I feel at the moment. I'm not sure I will see the money again to be honest and though a pricey wake up call I do kinda think it's worth it.

No problem

If he isnt interested in changing, thats his problem - by all means still go out with him, but be *very* wary of lending the guy money. Dont lend large amounts, or anything you cant afford to not see for a while. Does he pay back eventually, or just hope that people forget about it ?

One guy he never bothered paying back and has avoided seeing ever since. I think cos with me cos he still wanted my company he's always payed it back at some point or another. As to now, who knows? Though he still friends with one of my friends who just may kick his a** if he don't so we'll see.

[tenpercenter]

the title to this thread sounds like my life