She's the Boss

[Roverman]

Just re-watched this and whilst its a very good episode with three excellent storylines in it. I have issues with the realism of the Frasier vs Kate situation.

1. Why didn't Frasier just sent Bebe in to sort Kate out? As Agent for several of the presenters she must have known there was a new manager and I doubt she'd let Frasier be pushed into the graveyard slot!

2. Frasier and Roz do a show from 2am-6am and chance upon Bulldog hiding from Kate, why would he even be there at that time of day? His show starts at 5pm! So whilst its funny to see him cowering in the corner to avoid Kate, its not really realistic! Its also a bit of a stretch for Kate to be in work at 6am but I think she did that on purpose to see Frasier finishing his show.

Having said all that I think the character of Kate is brilliant, not many women in Frasier are his intellectual equal and it is always funny to watch him being corrected for a change!

[Patrick]

I think there are many, many aspects of Frasier as a whole that are unrealistic and even borderline impossible but I have to disagree on (1). Bebe is Frasier's personal agent. She gets a percentage on everything that Frasier makes. She couldn't care less about the other employees, let alone the ones that aren't even "on air talents". Martin was able to convince them (the on air talents) that they had a vested interest in supporting "the little people" but Bebe has always shown herself to be completely indifferent to them. Remember the incident with "big willie" and how Frasier convinced her to quit smoking. Bebe is the kind of people that won't do anything unless they have a direct (monetary) interest in it.

I have to disagree on (2), at least partially, as well. Kate is a boss, IE she doesn't have a specific working period, she could be in her office whenever she wants, I worked once for a guy who would show up at the office very early in the mornings and very late in the evenings and some times randomly during the day. That way he could see who showed up early and who stayed up late after everyone else is gone. of course. He also relied on gossip and betrayal and so the ambiance at work was terrible, so I quit that job as soon as I got a proposition from elsewhere and so did all the valuable people after a while. So it's a shortsighted way to rule a business but it may be a long time before it catches up with the bad manager since he could have also moved on to a better company before the higher ups realized that something was wrong. But I can certainly understand how Kate could be at work anytime she wants.

I also disagree on the rarity of women that Frasier dated and were his intellectual equal. There were many of them. His three "wives" for example were all intelligent and accomplished women, the first one with a career, the second with and extensive intellectual knowledge, although she was called pseudo intellectual more than once (especially by Frasier's mother when she met her and threatened to kill her). The third one Lilith was not only his equal but showed herself to be his superior many times. He also dated that woman that he took to the tropical islands and that famous lawyer, plus a few others, the list is important, who were also superior to him in fame and accomplishments. There's also the super model zoologist... that I almost forgot. So Kate was far from being the only one to dominate Frasier.As Frasier once said "If I had trouble taking orders from a woman then Freddy would never have been born.." that says it all.

[Roverman]

I believe that realism takes second place to comedy effect, especially in this episode. I just think if Frasier had told Bebe of the way he was being treated by Kate the outcome would have been different to what we saw as viewers. She was at least, his agent and Bulldog's, if not others.

I can't agree with you entirely of the women.

1. Nanny G was a children's entertainer, even Frasier admits their marriage was down to their youthfulness and lack of maturity, whilst she's got 20 years work out of being a kids entertainer, I am struggling to see any other intelligence in that character.

2. Diane? Perlease, she was as thick as 2 short planks. I could almost argue she had a one track mind, that track being the Cheers bar, bearing in mind that she must have been 40+ when she turned up in Frasier, is it not a little one sided that the only play she could create was about the Cheers bar? Are we to accept that she had no other life experiences worth delving into? The fact that her 'Frasier' in the play had different feelings to the genuine ones Frasier felt after being jilted suggests to me a deep lack of intelligence and understanding. I believe that one of the reason the Cheers writers put them together (in Cheers) was to annoy Long who had wanted Grammer thrown off the show.

3. Lilith. Finally we arrive at a woman who can match and even out manoeuvre Frasier when at her best. Frasier certainly did admit that if he was unable to take orders from a woman Freddy would never have been conceived yet he was man enough to abduct Freddy just before his circumcision.

Kate Costas was one of the first women in the Frasier series who made Frasier seem second best. She may not have gone to Harvard but shes no thicko. The fact she corrects him, more than once, shows this in spades. Whilst Madeline was immensely beautiful and had a successful career with swimwear she is no intellectual equal to Frasier. We don't even see her argue properly with him, she just leaves the scene either by flying home early or leaving the apartment.

About 2 years later he dates Samantha Pierce, a very high flying lawyer and we see Frasier playing an unfamiliar role, the 'girl'! Yet we mustn't confuse power with intelligence. Whilst Samantha is clearly a very good lawyer and able to handle people like Larry King, would she have know what key Bartók's concerto was played in? We only have to look to Donny to see that being an excellent lawyer doesn't automatically mean you'll know anything about arts or music.

Although having said that this article http://www.frasieronline.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6025 suggests both Kate and Frasier were both wrong as being a modern piece its not tied down to tonal traditions and has been played in a number of keys!

Its also worth noting that Kate won a Peabody Award, they are given out for

Reflecting excellence in quality rather than popularity or commercial success

yet all her ideas and drive seem to come from more populist and commercial angles, in the episode 'Leaping Lizards' she allows Bulldog to continue haranguing Frasier simply because it garners a lot of calls.

Now please don't get me wrong, I like the episode a lot but for some reason I find that this episode has holes in it and I find myself noticing them!

[Ariel]

I believe that realism takes second place to comedy effect, especially in this episode. I just think if Frasier had told Bebe of the way he was being treated by Kate the outcome would have been different to what we saw as viewers. She was at least, his agent and Bulldog's, if not others.

I can't agree with you entirely of the women.

1. Nanny G was a children's entertainer, even Frasier admits their marriage was down to their youthfulness and lack of maturity, whilst she's got 20 years work out of being a kids entertainer, I am struggling to see any other intelligence in that character.

2. Diane? Perlease, she was as thick as 2 short planks. I could almost argue she had a one track mind, that track being the Cheers bar, bearing in mind that she must have been 40+ when she turned up in Frasier, is it not a little one sided that the only play she could create was about the Cheers bar? Are we to accept that she had no other life experiences worth delving into? The fact that her 'Frasier' in the play had different feelings to the genuine ones Frasier felt after being jilted suggests to me a deep lack of intelligence and understanding. I believe that one of the reason the Cheers writers put them together (in Cheers) was to annoy Long who had wanted Grammer thrown off the show.

3. Lilith. Finally we arrive at a woman who can match and even out manoeuvre Frasier when at her best. Frasier certainly did admit that if he was unable to take orders from a woman Freddy would never have been conceived yet he was man enough to abduct Freddy just before his circumcision.

Kate Costas was one of the first women in the Frasier series who made Frasier seem second best. She may not have gone to Harvard but shes no thicko. The fact she corrects him, more than once, shows this in spades. Whilst Madeline was immensely beautiful and had a successful career with swimwear she is no intellectual equal to Frasier. We don't even see her argue properly with him, she just leaves the scene either by flying home early or leaving the apartment.

About 2 years later he dates Samantha Pierce, a very high flying lawyer and we see Frasier playing an unfamiliar role, the 'girl'! Yet we mustn't confuse power with intelligence. Whilst Samantha is clearly a very good lawyer and able to handle people like Larry King, would she have know what key Bartók's concerto was played in? We only have to look to Donny to see that being an excellent lawyer doesn't automatically mean you'll know anything about arts or music.

Although having said that this article http://www.frasieronline.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6025 suggests both Kate and Frasier were both wrong as being a modern piece its not tied down to tonal traditions and has been played in a number of keys!

Its also worth noting that Kate won a Peabody Award, they are given out for

Reflecting excellence in quality rather than popularity or commercial success

yet all her ideas and drive seem to come from more populist and commercial angles, in the episode 'Leaping Lizards' she allows Bulldog to continue haranguing Frasier simply because it garners a lot of calls.

Now please don't get me wrong, I like the episode a lot but for some reason I find that this episode has holes in it and I find myself noticing them!

Very interesting post - but I'm a bit horrified that in order to be thought intelligent women have to know about art and classical music!! Please can't we be allowed to be intelligent Muse fans

[PistolPoet]

Kate Costas was one of the first women in the Frasier series who made Frasier seem second best. She may not have gone to Harvard but shes no thicko. The fact she corrects him, more than once, shows this in spades. Whilst Madeline was immensely beautiful and had a successful career with swimwear she is no intellectual equal to Frasier. We don't even see her argue properly with him, she just leaves the scene either by flying home early or leaving the apartment.

About 2 years later he dates Samantha Pierce, a very high flying lawyer and we see Frasier playing an unfamiliar role, the 'girl'! Yet we mustn't confuse power with intelligence. Whilst Samantha is clearly a very good lawyer and able to handle people like Larry King, would she have know what key Bartók's concerto was played in? We only have to look to Donny to see that being an excellent lawyer doesn't automatically mean you'll know anything about arts or music.

The fact that Madeline didn't argue with Frasier has nothing to do with her intellect. She reacted emotionally, sure, but it's understandable in her situation. If I were her, and I witnessed Frasier simulating sex to make his ex-wife jealous (or whatever he was trying to do), I don't think I would give him a second chance, especially knowing that Madeline had already been in a similar situation.
Also, I wouldn't mix intelligence and education. There are thousands of intelligent and sophisticated people who don't know anything about wine or classical music, it's a matter of interest, so yes, I'd definitely say that Sam was Frasier's equal.
If we look only at Frasier's 'serious' relationships, there's Claire, who was basically female Frasier without the hysterical part and Faye, who looked every bit as successful and clever as him. Then there's a number of women who definitely could be Frasier's equals, but they didn't stick around long enough: the woman from Out With Dad, the woman who owns the book store in Three Blind Dates, Stephanie from To Kill a Talking Bird (went to Harvard), at least the last out of the three women in Three Dates and a Breakup and a few others.


I do agree with you about Bebe, though. If Frasier had stayed in the late night time slot for a while longer, he would have started losing listeners, and his career would have been in danger, so it was her job to fix it. On the other hand, I think that calling Bebe to sort out his own feud would have meant admitting defeat, and Frasier has his pride .