Frasier Online
home About The Show Episode Guide Merchandise Forum Reviews Gallery Contact

What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Discussion of all things 'Frasier' - the episodes, the actors and other 'Frasier'-related topics.

What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby crystal_blue0610 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:51 am

I have all the seasons on DVD but lately I've been re-watching them on the Hallmark Channel and it's bringing back what I've always wondered.

What in the world happened to Daphne? Seasons 1-6, Daphne was quirky and lovable. Season 7 is when her personality started going downhill. Donnie wasn't a horrible guy but she started to lose her edge. By the end, (also when Jane Leeves got pregnant in real life) the Daphne we all knew and loved was completely gone. I noticed that by those last 4 episodes or so.

In it's place was Jane Leeves. The higher pitched accent disappeared and Daphne's dialogue seemed more deadpanned than happy go lucky/quirky/scatterbrained.

I don't get it?

Did Jane want to start being herself and lose the quirky Daphne after she became a mom like she couldn't do it anymore? Was it because quirky didn't work now that she and Niles were finally together?

I definitely think the show jumped shark when those two got together and not just because the humor of Niles' unrequited love went away but because of Daphne. Niles fell in love with her quirkiness and she just completely changed.

Seasons 7-11 just lost all the real humor of the show that made it so good. It became much more serious and not funny serious.
crystal_blue0610
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: USA

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby JackE » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:18 am

It was always going to be an effect of living in an environment with as she says 'such demanding men'. Their tight personalities rubbed off on her, she became more refined and self aware. Of course, season 11, they had to put the effects of pregnancy into her character which also contributed to her less loveable character. It was always a shame, but it only makes her more loveable when you watch the earlier seasons.
"Oh yes Niles, that's just what we need, a fourth language!"

An Affair to Forget
User avatar
JackE
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 3:24 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby tenpercenter » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:31 pm

yes i agree

her personaltiy is the worse change out of all of them followed by roz, who also becomes way to serious and loses her "slutty" (in a goiod way) charm

of course she had a kid, but still. i say i lost more love for roz as the series went on but yeah daphne is very unlikable in the last few seasons and adorable in the first few.
"blood is thicker than port. -
i stand corrected"
tenpercenter
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:55 am

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby crystal_blue0610 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:50 am

tenpercenter wrote:yes i agree

her personaltiy is the worse change out of all of them followed by roz, who also becomes way to serious and loses her "slutty" (in a goiod way) charm

of course she had a kid, but still. i say i lost more love for roz as the series went on but yeah daphne is very unlikable in the last few seasons and adorable in the first few.


Roz had a tangible excuse for her personality shift. We say and heard Alice. There was nothing visible to show for why Daphne went from being warm and fuzzy to prickly and cold.

They all changed but Daphne's was the worst especially when she had the most happiness. She found real love and went somber. Martin got old. Frasier got old and his love life never really took off, Roz finally had to mature because she was responsible for more than remembering to stock up on birth control and condoms and remember when to go test.
crystal_blue0610
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: USA

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby tenpercenter » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:16 am

i agree about roz

i guess i just get frustrated at the fact that her character isnt usually used well

more as a stop gap to move the story along

some of the best early episodes are based around her. thought that got lost a bit
"blood is thicker than port. -
i stand corrected"
tenpercenter
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:55 am

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby evelynwaughwasaman » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:57 am

Yes! I completely agree. It’s so upsetting when you consider that Daphne’s personality is so dulled down in the last few seasons. Her legacy is definitely tarnished by it. In fact, just the other day I was watching the episode with the mix up of the new physical therapist, the stripper for Martin’s bachelor party and the nanny for Daphne’s yet to be born baby (Season 11, ‘Detour’) and that episode sort of summed up Daphne’s season 8-11 personality – boring and inconsistent.
evelynwaughwasaman
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:49 am

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Alastair_Mobery » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:59 am

People often talk about how she changed after she got married to Niles. True, but Daphne Moon/Jane Leaves was always an embarrassment and not worthy a part in the greatest sitcom ever produced. Without a doubt the weakest link among the main cast.
Alastair_Mobery
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:44 am

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby mickeba » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:39 am

I think the show clearly went down after the wedding. Niles desire for Daphne was the driver of so much of the show's charm and success. Daphne became very unbelievable following the wedding. Daphne was going to the opera and ballet with Niles and became somewhat snooty, and that wasn't her personality. I really felt it was over the episode where Daphne and Niles had the tee shirts with their faces on them. It just wasn't there for me a that point. But shows never end at the appropriate time. Seasons 8 through 10 were the worst of the run. 11 was a big improvement, but the quality just dropped after the wedding.
"It's always darkest, just before it goes totally black!"
mickeba
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Southern California

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Ramona » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:17 am

I agree with so much of this. When I watch the later seasons I miss the loveable, kooky Daphne. She changed completely and it's hard to believe that Niles would still be in love with that. It felt like once they were together, she no longer made her own contribution to the show, like the writers hadn't much left for her.
"So you've found me. Congratulations"
User avatar
Ramona
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:49 pm
Location: SPPAAAACCCCEE

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby mickeba » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:04 am

The Daphne who drug Niles to "Bananarama" would never go to the opera. Never.
"It's always darkest, just before it goes totally black!"
mickeba
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Southern California

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby mickeba » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:09 am

I just found it hard to believe Daphne went for Niles at all. She's so stunning and he's such a tight ass. What Niles would find fun, Daphne never would. I just didn't find it believable they'd end up together. I thought the show was much more fun when he was pining for her from afar.
"It's always darkest, just before it goes totally black!"
mickeba
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Southern California

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby AwesomeRigby » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:54 pm

I agree with Daphne's personality going down hill, but I still really liked her. Of course, love the first few seasons with her!
AwesomeRigby
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:49 pm

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby mickeba » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:16 pm

The first 5 seasons, this was the greatest show American television ever produced. Nothing out there could touch it. Seasons 6 and 7 were great, but in marrying Niles and Daphne, a huge source of the shows comedic appeal was roached. They should have ended it, when she ditched Donnie, by having them ride off from the church and the series ending.
"It's always darkest, just before it goes totally black!"
mickeba
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Southern California

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Moon-Crane » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:17 pm

mickeba wrote:The first 5 seasons, this was the greatest show American television ever produced. Nothing out there could touch it. Seasons 6 and 7 were great, but in marrying Niles and Daphne, a huge source of the shows comedic appeal was roached. They should have ended it, when she ditched Donnie, by having them ride off from the church and the series ending.


The main issue i'd have had with your preference is that the show was called Frasier, not the Niles And Daphne Show. Niles and Daphne were a great subplot, but old Kelsey was playing the character i was most interested in. It had to end only when they'd finished telling his story.
''Fire in the hole, Bitch!'' Jesse Pinkman - Breaking Bad

My Top TV
User avatar
Moon-Crane
 
Posts: 20753
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:19 pm
Location: Bucks, UK

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby CatNamedRudy » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:10 am

Moon-Crane wrote:
mickeba wrote:The first 5 seasons, this was the greatest show American television ever produced. Nothing out there could touch it. Seasons 6 and 7 were great, but in marrying Niles and Daphne, a huge source of the shows comedic appeal was roached. They should have ended it, when she ditched Donnie, by having them ride off from the church and the series ending.


The main issue i'd have had with your preference is that the show was called Frasier, not the Niles And Daphne Show. Niles and Daphne were a great subplot, but old Kelsey was playing the character i was most interested in. It had to end only when they'd finished telling his story.


Yep. What MC said!
This is the STUPIDEST day I've ever had!
User avatar
CatNamedRudy
 
Posts: 24607
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:08 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA: King Scott Walker reigning!

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Scrambled Salad » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:27 pm

I reckon all the characters change more in the last seasons. Frasier's snobbiness gets a little more irritating, Daphne is a little less kooky and quirky, Niles is much less of an anxious hysterical flap, and Roz is no longer the free wheeling serial dater. Somehow for me this all leads to it being slightly less hilarious...
Don't get me wrong though, still love the seasons after and there's still storylines I really enjoyed, but I definitely preferred the earlier seasons when their characters weren't as matured by their experiences over the seasons.
Scrambled Salad
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby mickeba » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:47 pm

The problem with American Television is that there's no good yardstick for when to end programs. Shows tend to hang on for several seasons past the shelf life, using ploys like having a baby to extend the life of a program. I loved the philosophy behind "Lost", as they intended a 7 year run and then an ending. They screwed up the ending, and it was poor but the plan was solid. The show may be called "Frasier", it's a great strong ensemble and I don't think it's ever "about Frasier. The stories made Niles/Daphne virtually equal to Frasier in the scheme of the show. At it's heyday, Niles and Daphne were what people talked about and much of the show was driven by those two and the big guessing game. I don't ever remember anyone talking about the show in terms of a sole focus on Frasier. But you get that with strong ensembles. This show is about "Frasier's relationships" in life, but the ensemble is the key to what makes this show great. If it's about Frasier, then Niles is unnecessary. He's not needed at the station. Frasier's life at home only "needs" Martin and Daphne. Daphne doesn't even need to be promenent, but in the design of the show, they are integral keys that make the sum great.
"It's always darkest, just before it goes totally black!"
mickeba
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Southern California

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby pscott » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:02 am

I completely agree with Crystal. I have no idea what happened to Daphne. In the first 5-6 seasons she is quirky and a little naive. Her accent was high pitched and happy. Then all of a sudden she gets with niles and her character changes. Gone is accent and constant smile. She seems to frown most of the time and is sarcastic. If this was real life Frasier would be concerned about Daphnes loss of happiness.

And it's weird because there is an episode in season 10 or 11 where they play their former selves and Jane Leeves can't even get it right. So it makes me believe that she forgot how to act?? Ha. I don't get it. I would think someone in the writing room would catch it or a director would say Hey Jane what happened to Daphnes voice? Maybe Jane carried over her own life into the role and figured the marriage to niles would change her that much. I just watched "Mixed Doubles". Watch it and you'll see what I mean. Especially the bar scene at the end. What happened to that Daphne?

Having said all that I'm new to this forum. Frasier is my favorite tv character of all time and I mean all the way back to Rebound Part 1 on Cheers. I'm so glad we were able to follow this character for 20 years. It's funny how shelly long initially wanted him off cheers only to become more successful than any of those characters.
pscott
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:47 am

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Eddie2012 » Thu May 31, 2012 12:54 pm

What puzzles me most is the suddenness of the change. We have a charming kooky Daphne one minute, then she gets together with Niles and - wham! - all gone. She gets boring, arrogant, snooty, talks down to people, looses all her own interest and exchanges them for Niles' and becomes unlovable and unbelievable (of course she would never be a believable character in the real world, but the cover-up of JL's pregnancy is completely silly - there ARE pregnancy clothes that don't look like a tent...). Other says that Daphne matures and her accent had to change after living in America for so long - but practically over night?! Series 8 to 10 are not the best ones, but the quality steps up again in series 11. Daphne, however, remains irritating. I watched the murder plot involving Maris recently and the behaviour of Daphne was downright appalling, pregancy moods or not.
But, sadly, Niles also changes. DHP's fantstic facial comedy (is that even a word? 8-) ) for example is also gone. He barely moves his eyes or frowns, smiles or laughs anymore. There are exceptions of course, that is the general feel I got after season 7.
User avatar
Eddie2012
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 11:05 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Allison Chains » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:30 pm

Eddie2012 wrote:What puzzles me most is the suddenness of the change. We have a charming kooky Daphne one minute, then she gets together with Niles and - wham! - all gone. She gets boring, arrogant, snooty, talks down to people, looses all her own interest and exchanges them for Niles' and becomes unlovable and unbelievable (of course she would never be a believable character in the real world, but the cover-up of JL's pregnancy is completely silly - there ARE pregnancy clothes that don't look like a tent...). Other says that Daphne matures and her accent had to change after living in America for so long - but practically over night?! Series 8 to 10 are not the best ones, but the quality steps up again in series 11. Daphne, however, remains irritating. I watched the murder plot involving Maris recently and the behaviour of Daphne was downright appalling, pregancy moods or not.
But, sadly, Niles also changes. DHP's fantstic facial comedy (is that even a word? 8-) ) for example is also gone. He barely moves his eyes or frowns, smiles or laughs anymore. There are exceptions of course, that is the general feel I got after season 7.


I agree Eddie, I did not care for Daphne at all after she and Niles got together and the ridiculous storyline behind her pregnancy weight gain seemed well below Frasier standards (I think Julia Louis Dreyfus had 2 or 3 kids while she was on Seinfeld and they handled it very well with good wardrobe choices and camera angles).
User avatar
Allison Chains
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:17 am

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby mickeba » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:38 am

I thought the whole fat farm storyline was ridiculous, insensitive and insulting to Jane. It was far below the standards of Frasier. Frasier is a class show, and that was most definitely no class.
"It's always darkest, just before it goes totally black!"
mickeba
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:00 am
Location: Southern California

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Eddie2012 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:08 pm

(Funnily enough, JL wears some nice clothes during her second pregnancy that did a lot more to hide a belly (when there was no need for that) than that hideous purple velvet suit or that inflatable-tent-jumper. Yikes! I didn't know such clothes exist :o )

They could easily have used a plot involving some emergency or else that required Daphne to return home for some time.
User avatar
Eddie2012
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 11:05 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby KevinWI » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:31 am

"What happened to Daphne" is apart of the larger problem of the Niles-Daphne relationship.

In early seasons, Niles had a boyish crush on Daphne and it was a funny gang to see him swooning over her, Martin and Frasier annoyed reactions, and Daphne apparently oblivious to it.

But, they had to make Niles-Daphne this massive epic relationship of destiny that had been foretold in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And suddenly the show became about Niles and Daphne.

It's like Darth Vader and Star Wars. Re-watch the first Star Wars movie (Episode 4 / A New Hope). Darth Vader is just a badass villain. Because of the character's popularity, George Lucas makes him Luke's father. By the end of all six movies, Darth Vader is Space Jesus.

Niles-Daphne went from being a throwaway gag ("Oh look, the guy with the terrible marriage and obnoxious wife is in love with his brother's housekeeper!") to being the centerpiece of the later seasons which was a terrible decision and it changed Daphne's character for the worse.
KevinWI
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:26 am

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby Kittysafe » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:43 pm

Season 8 - sneaking around, Mel subplot, they tried to do a little with this, but not much - remember, the kind Starlight Room dining on the roof from Frasier.
They also go to the mall, not that we see that, but the whole thing is wearing on Daphne, we also never really see Daphne anywhere else but the apartment, which made her character ultimately one-dimensional. Of course the show is not about her so that's not entirely unexpected.
User avatar
Kittysafe
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:36 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: What happened to Daphne seasons 7-11?

Postby tenpercenter » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:52 am

i actually like daphne rewatching s10. she isnt nasty here like in the last season, she is very kind and happy and actually one of the funnier characters, and doesnt have that god awful s8 hair!
"blood is thicker than port. -
i stand corrected"
tenpercenter
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:55 am

Next

Return to Frasier Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


© Site contents are copyright Stuart Lee 1999 - 2014. This is a Frasier fan site and is not affiliated in any way with the program, Grub St Productions, Paramount or NBC.