What irritates you about 'Frasier'?

[PistolPoet]

I'm actually more bothered by irrational behavior of the women who storm out on him without considering all the facts or giving him the slightest benefit of the doubt. "Can't Buy Me Love," "You Scratch My Book...," "Frasier's Imaginary Friend," and "First Do No Harm" spring to mind. Not one of these ladies is very compassionate, and in the maddening case of Honey Snow, she led him down that road herself! How was he supposed to know where the line was that could not be crossed? There are even more minor examples, the first two Dates with the Breakup (you know, the first one-hour episode), for example. The women in "Dial M for Martin," "Secret Admirer," etc., etc. All of these women are pretty much b*tches. And then that horrible born-again woman in Party, Party DOES give him multiple chances (which is pretty refreshing) until the big letdown at the end of that episode when we realize that she's not what she seems. I don't think I'd count Regan. She seemed pretty forgiving, and Frasier eventually just gave up with her because so many things went so wildly wrong.

That whole trope is one of my big issues with the show. Although there is a payoff at the end where Charlotte subverts this (the whole point of the grossly misunderstood "Detour" episode).

I honestly don't think it's fair to bundle all of those women together like that. Patrick already explained some of it, and I really have to stand up for Nancy from Secret Admirer. What self-respecting woman would stay on a date with a man who chats up another woman in the middle of it? I really don't know how you can possibly call her a bitch.
In Dial M for Martin, the woman overrreacted when she screamed at Frasier, but I wouldn't have a very high opinion of him seeing him handle his father that way.
I don't see what the woman from Party, Party has to do with the theme, since she didn't storm out on Frasier, she just turned out to be incompatible, which is not her fault (as much as I dislike evangelists).
Marie in First Do No Harm actually forgave Frasier after he broke up with her the first time, and even if she wanted to give him a third chance, she couldn't, since he was sure he wanted to break up with her for good the second time. Yes, she was using him for therapy, so you can call them even, but I still wouldn't blame their breakup solely on her.

[hansenkd]

Yeah, I guess I was unfair to some of these ladies. I just wanted to illustrate the overused trope itself, and one reason I love "Detour" is that it is FINALLY subverted there (as I said, people who focus on the creepy family entirely miss the point).

Honey Snow and the woman from "Can't Buy Me Love" are the worst offenders, though. And I can't stand Amanda Donohoe's character in "Call Me Irresponsible" (actually, that's one of the earliest episodes I really dislike and really the first example of this whole formula).

Yes, he acted like an ass in "Secret Admirer." Yes, he looked bad in "Dial M for Martin" (although I can see why he was at the end of his rope there). But still.

I purposely left out Sam from the two-episode arc at the beginning of Season 5. His behavior there was even worse than in "Secret Admirer!"

I included "Party, Party" because it was so close to be a satisfying subversion but was a letdown at the end. And I don't think she was ever interested in dating Frasier. I think she gave him all those chances because her interest all along was in sharing The Truth, not in romance.

[PistolPoet]

Yeah, I see what you mean... Actually, thinking about it, I really wouldn't have minded if Frasier had been in stable relationships more often. The show didn't exactly depend on his love life for laughs, so they didn't need to introduce as many one-episode dates as they did.

[hansenkd]

Yeah, I see what you mean... Actually, thinking about it, I really wouldn't have minded if Frasier had been in stable relationships more often. The show didn't exactly depend on his love life for laughs, so they didn't need to introduce as many one-episode dates as they did.

The multi-episode relationship arcs I remember were both love triangles: Cassandra/Faye and Lana/Claire.

[frasier floyd]

Yeah, I see what you mean... Actually, thinking about it, I really wouldn't have minded if Frasier had been in stable relationships more often. The show didn't exactly depend on his love life for laughs, so they didn't need to introduce as many one-episode dates as they did.

The multi-episode relationship arcs I remember were both love triangles: Cassandra/Faye and Lana/Claire.

I enjoyed those love triangles! I didn't particularly enjoy Lana though.

[freewill]

Two dates and a break up. The first one, I like dogs so you have to like dogs or I'll hate you. I am vegetarian, so you have to be vegetarian or I'll hate you. "Go to hell, bitch!"

I think her issue with Frasier was that he lied to her (twice). He told her that hogwash about having a dream of owning a big house where he can have as many dogs as he likes. Chances are it wouldn't have worked out anyway, but I doubt she'd have broken it off right then and there had he been honest with her. Although his fate probably was sealed as soon as he locked Eddie away.

[Ariel]

Two dates and a break up. The first one, I like dogs so you have to like dogs or I'll hate you. I am vegetarian, so you have to be vegetarian or I'll hate you. "Go to hell, bitch!"

I think her issue with Frasier was that he lied to her (twice). He told her that hogwash about having a dream of owning a big house where he can have as many dogs as he likes. Chances are it wouldn't have worked out anyway, but I doubt she'd have broken it off right then and there had he been honest with her. Although his fate probably was sealed as soon as he locked Eddie away.

Which episode is this please? I want to go and watch it!

[PistolPoet]

Two dates and a break up. The first one, I like dogs so you have to like dogs or I'll hate you. I am vegetarian, so you have to be vegetarian or I'll hate you. "Go to hell, bitch!"

I think her issue with Frasier was that he lied to her (twice). He told her that hogwash about having a dream of owning a big house where he can have as many dogs as he likes. Chances are it wouldn't have worked out anyway, but I doubt she'd have broken it off right then and there had he been honest with her. Although his fate probably was sealed as soon as he locked Eddie away.

Which episode is this please? I want to go and watch it!

Three Dates and a Breakup, a two-part episode in season 4.

[nahborghi]

Hi, i'm new around here. I recently got hooked on this amazing show, but there were two main things that bothered me a lot through the series:

1) The constant slutshaming

I know, Roz is promiscuous. It's one of her main characteristics, but do we really need to keep listening to everyone calling her a slut? I know, those were the 90's, and sleeping around was a big thing back then, but I always take example on Elaine from Seinfeld: she dated as many men as Roz did, and yet there were no occasions where she was labeled as a slut.

On frasier, they kept hitting the "slut" buttom over and over again (one of the worst cases i can think of is on "A New Position For Roz" where bulldog is just disgusting through the whole farewell dinner scene). Specially with Frasier and Niles, who were very close to her but couldn't stop making jokes at the expense of "UH, ROZ SLEEPS WITH A LOT OF MEN". And to be honest, Frasier has had a big list of dates too, so I think it's a little bit of sexism when it comes to Roz slut jokes.

2) The lack of PoC

This is a problem most of the 90's shows had, but still bugs me. The lack of diversity is really noticiable, and I can only remember of two characters - Dr. Mary, and the "SUPER!" lady Roz tries to set up with Frasier on "Crock Tales" - that wasn't white (correct me if i'm wrong).

[frasier floyd]

I know this topic has been raised before, but Daphne in the latter seasons of the show irritates me. Last night I watched the Return of Martin Crane. At first, it was nice to see her so excited about the Billy Joel tickets Niles surprised her with, and it was equally thoughtful of her to surprise him with the Mongolian throat-singing concert tickets. However, once they realized they were for the same night, Daphne's excitement shriveled into a bitter mood at the prospect of missing her concert for Niles' or for Martin's favor. Young Daphne was so sweet and willing to help anyone, what happened to her sweet spirit? It seemed as if she wasn't able to experience happiness together with Niles, but only in turns. And she was keeping count! Last week they got a -you-movie and listened to NPR on the way there *and* back...

In these last seasons, the usual high pitched tone from her voice is dropped, as well as much of her quirky stories of her youth. Granted, those stories could've gotten old after a while, but they were a big part of Daphne and so this represents just one more decline in her character. She just seems generally more pissed off. It was almost as if once she got with Niles, she was cemented in the family/show and no longer required any charm or humor to remain among them. I wonder if it was the fault of Jane Leeves or if the writers wanted her to become this way. Any thoughts?

[Roverman]

Excellent post frasier floyd. I'd also add the fact she was still billing full price for Martin's physio despite being his daughter-in-law and clearly not needing the money. When Frasier suggests a discount, because Avery suggests belt tightening, the look she gives is pure evil.

[Patrick]

Excellent post frasier floyd. I'd also add the fact she was still billing full price for Martin's physio despite being his daughter-in-law and clearly not needing the money. When Frasier suggests a discount, because Avery suggests belt tightening, the look she gives is pure evil.

I disagree with that. People get normally payed more as they acquire experience not less. You'd get that reaction from any employee who's boss decided to reduce their salary. Frasier is just being his usual self centered narcissistic tightfisted splurge. I'd say it runs in the family as Martin feeds his son's foie gras to his dog and on the other hand still remembers a security deposit thirty years after it's been allegedly owed him or paying for his orphan daughter in law's (half) wedding. Like father like son!

There's nothing more despicable than people that are generous with the money of others and at the same time stingy with their own.

[frasier floyd]

Hi Roverman. While I can understand her not wanting a pay cut just because she started dating Niles, I can also understand Frasier's interest in a discounted price since he no longer required her to act as maid and butler (something I never quite understood to begin with). Therefore, a pay cut would reflect a decrease in workload. If her workload hadn't been cut, I'd have to agree with Patrick that Frasier was just being stingy in one area because he chose an expensive and beautiful lawyer to represent him.

[Roverman]

Daphne had married the boss's brother plus her husband at one time was (or had indeed offered) to cover part of her salary so effectively Niles was probably paying for his wife to massage his dad's bum! She had moved out so no longer did the housework so should have expected a cut in salary relative to the cut in her workload. She was also organising to take on more clients so would have been raking it in. I firmly believe that the 'old' Daphne would have offered to take a cut in wages even before Frasier would have suggested it.

I also disliked the scene where Daphne makes Gertrude sign her paycheque over to her. Whilst Gertrude harps on about being sent out to work 'to keep the palace going' she misses the point completely. Daphne sent her out to work to give her something to do because all she did at home was drink Whisky, cause trouble and get maudlin about her failed marriage.

[frasier floyd]

I disliked most of the episodes with Gertrude. I can't remember... why did Daphne make her mother sign over her paycheck to her? Was Gertrude living with them at the time or was she living in her own apartment (remember Niles offered to get her her own apartment so she could be nearby but not in their house)?

[Roverman]

I did wonder if Daphne was cashing her paycheque because Gertrude might not have organised a US bank account for herself by this point (sending that cheque to an UK account for cashing is very complicated) but the scene just seemed so nasty.

She was still living with them at this point, this itself raises another point. As far as I can recall we never see the place she moves into.I think she would have loved it down at the Shangri La with all these single men!

[Patrick]

I did wonder if Daphne was cashing her paycheque because Gertrude might not have organised a US bank account for herself by this point (sending that cheque to an UK account for cashing is very complicated) but the scene just seemed so nasty.

She was still living with them at this point, this itself raises another point. As far as I can recall we never see the place she moves into.I think she would have loved it down at the Shangri La with all these single men!

All I see is Gertrude being obnoxious and choosing to work when all Daphne has asked is that she helped around the house and probably stopped being a pig in her habits too as she does things like leaving her teeth on the night table without even a coaster under them or in a glass. That says something. Instead of doing the normal thing and mend her ways she decides to be difficult and finds work at the cafe. Well, then it's only natural that Daphne takes her check. I don't see what's shocking about it. Gertrude is not old enough to be taken care of entirely, it would have been different if she were at that stage, she's just being an ingrate and a free loader.

[Frasiertime]

I think Lana is annoying with her loud outbursts, harsh tone, and rude remarks. I never understood why they wrote her character like that, it wasn't any fun to watch.

[CatNamedRudy]

I think Lana is annoying with her loud outbursts, harsh tone, and rude remarks. I never understood why they wrote her character like that, it wasn't any fun to watch.

She was meant to be all of those things to shatter Frasier's fantasy of bedding the prom queen. I liked her in the few episodes she was in. More would have been overkill.

[frasier floyd]

Lana was definitely irritating at times with her brash personality and frequent yelling, but the actress no doubt played the part well! Also, good point Cat! I never thought of her harsh character as shattering the fantasy. Maybe she was hypothetically Frasier's dream woman (juxtaposed with his perfect woman Claire), and so his inability to be with either woman showcased his overall failure in his relationships- not that this was news to anyone.

[Patrick]

At first she was Lorna and then Lana... I don't know why.

[frasier floyd]

I saw someone post that they had to switch from Lorna to Lana because the original name too closely resembled a real person's name.

[Frasiertime]

I think Lana is annoying with her loud outbursts, harsh tone, and rude remarks. I never understood why they wrote her character like that, it wasn't any fun to watch.

She was meant to be all of those things to shatter Frasier's fantasy of bedding the prom queen. I liked her in the few episodes she was in. More would have been overkill.

Yes, I see the point of the prom queen fantasy. That explains why he couldn't get his mind off Lana when he was with Claire and why he dumped Claire. Also explains why he consulted with Lilith regarding Lana. He needed help trying to figure out why he was attracted to Lana. He couldn't let go of the fantasy, but didn't realize the fantasy was the real attraction and he ruined a good thing with Claire.

[Fraise Fan]

That explains why he couldn't get his mind off Lana when he was with Claire and why he dumped Claire.

That's not really true according to his analysis with Lilith while he was with Lilith, Diane, and his Mom at the cabin. The reason why his subconscious and dreams drifted to thinking of Lana, is Frasier is afraid of losing another perfect woman. Claire was for all intent and purposes, "perfect for Frasier", he said it repeatedly. So, he subconsciously wants to leave her, because he's afraid she'll leave him first. Because his Mom was a perfect woman, and she left him when she died. A deep seated psychological issue that has plagued Frasier ever since loosing his Mom.

I just watched this episode, that's why it's so fresh on my mind.

Fraiser seemed quite content after he got back home, now that he understood this fact.

[frasier floyd]

Frasier trying to pay people off to get what he wants. Like when he told Roz he'd pay for her airplane tickets just to keep laying down next to the dead man at Niles' apartment. Or when he said he'd just buy Daphne flowers after ripping open her letter home.