Best and Worst of Season - 10

[gwennie]

I googled dan O'shannon from the States and this website didn't turn up either. Dan O'Shannon is at Cleveland State though.

[gwennie]

Oops...(lot of that going around today...LOL), turning to page 2 of the google entries, sure enough, this site did turn up, so that makes it more plausible than not my dear Watson...sorry for the previous post.

[Shawn Rech]

He's really a great guy. We knew his credentials coming in and were all a bit nervous but he was extremely disarming. He has a ton of energy and uses a lot of self-depreciating humor. I've known him all of 72 hours but I believe you would really like him if you met him in person.

He told us some stories about arguments over story development. He also told us about how personal events made it to the screen. He uses many Cheers and Frasier examples to illustrate what he's teaching.

He also showed us one of his favorite programs and it comes from your neck of the woods. It's the period piece comedy show starring Mr. Bean. I forgot the name.

One of the students in our class is a "superfan" who has seen every episode at least three times. She's in Heaven.

[Jocelyn]

Dan O'Shannon's a fan of 'BlackAdder'? In that case he's alright by me[:]:-)[/:]

[Mr Blue Sky]

He's ok by me too Jocelyn after that snippet of information! [:]:-))[/:] Thanks for your posts Shawn and sorry for doubting the authenticity of your posts. It sounds a great course to be on, I'm sure Mr O'shannon's nice in real life, he comes accross very well on the interviews I've seen of him. I was just a bit taken aback by the content of his post above.

On behalf of all Frasier fans could you ask him why on God's Earth Saladin K Patterson was kept on staff for 3 years??? (joke! [:]:-))[/:])

[Stu]

After reading Mr O'Shannon's post and everyone's responses to it, I guess I should start by saying that it was certainly not my intention to make light of his e-mail to me - as I pointed out when I posted it, the authenticity of the e-mail wasn't established and I thought the views offered made an interesting counterbalance to the thoughts of other posters on the 'heart surgery' arc of episodes.

Now I freely accept that I failed to follow up on trying to establish the authenticity of the e-mail, and to take up the offer of phoning the number in the e-mail but to be honest, when I first read it, I found it thoroughly unpersuasive and saw no reason to change my views on the episode. That said, I found the points made about how NBC took the episodes and turned them into "very special ones" fascinating.

At the end of the day, I have to bear the ultimate responsibility for posting the e-mail. I don't make a habit of posting the e-mails that people send to me, and with handsight, it was not the wisest move I've ever made, but I hope at the end of all this discussion we are wiser than we are at the beginning.

[I'll leave to one side the comments made about other posters in this forum, as BN and others have rebutted them terrifically]


Stuart
--------

[Dan O'Shannon]

hi again.

ps-- my rather poorly-considered outburst of this morning came on the heels of reading all of your posts at once. in retrospect i should have enjoyed causing the commotion and simply moved on with my life.

i'm beginning to see the inherent problem with posts. readers can can supply their own tone to anything they read. i reread my original note, and, knowing myself, didn't think it came off too badly. it starts with a sincere compliment, then a point of contention, (admittedly in a chiding way) and an open invitation to call with any questions. i have to wonder what tone of voice some of the readers must have mentally supplied to this note in order to have this characterized as rude and snotty.

i was surprised that someone disliked the fact that it ended with "thanks." maybe that's an american thing? it's meant to imply "thanks for your time" or "thanks for your consideration in this matter". i think someone here said it was sarcasm. i actually meant it. i think i was also chided for having bad grammer. is this about the lack of caps, or am i slaughtering the language in some way? in short, it seems that no one could find anything good or sincere, or even consideration-worthy in the original letter. but they sure decided i was a jerk.

and so, of course, i got my feelings hurt and foolishly lashed out against the small pile of criticism from people i'd never even contacted. and, true to form, it seems i'm rude to call anyone on it.

i should like very much to put down this tar baby. (but don't expect to see any caps.)

and yes, i love blackadder. "ink and incompatability" is the episode i showed, and i'll show the final episode of "goes forth" if we have time.

some time ago i produced a pilot in england and had a great time. everyone was extremely nice to me and we all got along and i got to work with paul mayhew-archer who was fantastic and i ate at the groucho club. if any of that raises my stock, i'll take it.

dan

ps-- shawn gets an a.

[Ali 75]

As it's late and I may regret posting something offensive, I'd just like to say that I'm glad B.N, Jocelyn, Meg etc...responded the way they did. I make no apologies, nor am I embarrassed about discussing Frasier episodes, of course we don't know all the facts, we speculate, which is what people do on message boards. I think its a real shame that some of these posts have offended you so much, we are such big fans of the show and many of us have watched every episode and continue to watch them. Most of us post every day and considering the show ended a while ago I'd say that was good going. So I feel rather sad reading these posts, we spend a lot of time here and our enjoyment of the show overall overrides any feelings relating to particular episodes that we may not have liked for one reason or another.

I think you'll find that all of us have a great deal of respect for anyone who was involved with Frasier, so thank you for being a part of the best show ever made. BTW, NBC should be totally ashamed of the way they treated the show over the years, nothing gives me greater pleasure than to see 'Joey' etc..tanking in the ratings - nice to see them coming 4th in some demo's!

[Bee Gees Fan]

Mr. O'Shannon,

I'd just like to apologise if my speculation that your original email might not be genuine because of the lack of capital letters offended you. Obviously it wasn't intended to, as I had no way of knowing that you'd read it. It's just that I didn't consider the fact that professional writers such as yourself might just choose to write that way. It doesn't matter in the slightest, of course, but I'd just assumed that all adults wrote with capital letters. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was making a gripe, I wasn't, it just didn't occur to me that that could be someone's way of choosing to write.

As for the three episodes in question, I personally enjoyed them very much. Frasier is a comedy, but it's nice to deviate a little in a series and move into some serious ground. I also found the third episode very funny, with Frasier not daring to argue with Niles at all.

[Mr Blue Sky]

I think Mr O'Shannon's stock may have been raised with that latest e-mail. I do appreciate the sincere tone and that he was gracious enough to admit that he posted his first mail when still fairly upset at our comments. My rebuttal was also written in haste and I hope it didn't show too much disrespect. We are, as Ali said, all huge fans of the show and a post from anyone involved in it with some background info is very much appreciated.

It has warmed by heart to know Blackadder is being shown to US students as an example of a brilliantly written sitcom. The last episode of Goes Forth was a groundbreaking one, I remember being close to tears when I first saw that!

Once again, thanks for the post Mr O'Shannon (the 2nd one!) and enlightening a few of us fans with the insider info.

[Jocelyn]

Dan O'Shannon wrote:

and yes, i love blackadder. "ink and incompatability" is the episode i showed, and i'll show the final episode of "goes forth" if we have time.

some time ago i produced a pilot in england and had a great time. everyone was extremely nice to me and we all got along and i got to work with paul mayhew-archer who was fantastic and i ate at the groucho club. if any of that raises my stock, i'll take it.

Mr O'Shannon,

That's nice to know that you showed 'Ink And Incapability', not least because it features a certain 'Michael Moon' as Doctor Johnson! I was also interested that you worked with Paul Mayhew-Archer who wrote episodes of 'The Vicar Of Dibley', of which I believe Jane Leeves and Peri Gilpin were once attempting to produce a US version.

I am very grateful that you chose to post a second time and think any bad feelings that may have initially arisen can be forgotten.

Allow me to sign off with an unironic and wholly sincere:

Thanks[:];-)[/:]



Post Edited (04-12-05 18:18)

[K Butler]

Shawn thought I was in "Heaven" during Mr. O'Shannon's workshops at Cleveland State. He was right about that, but I think I've actually seen every episode at least 4 times--they syndicate pretty thoroughly here in the States. for those who don't understand writing without capitals, check out some e.e. cummings or bell hooks. or, try it and see how much time you save.

[Bob]

Frasier Rocks

[Mr Blue Sky]

Bumped for the benefit of Strat, and anyone else who may be interested in reading Dan O'Shannon's posts here. The Shannonmeister does offer some insight into the decision making process of the show, but with a touch less humour than Joe Keenan!

[Stratman]

Thanks, Beer. I'm actually quite a fan of Dan's. He produced good work on 'Cheers', and in my opinion, kept 'Frasier' afloat during the tough years.

[Mr Blue Sky]

I have a great respect for dan o'shannon's work too (although you wouldn't guess it from my reply! [:]:-))[/:]), it was just the tone of his post which irked me.

[Stratman]

I think it all comes down to, as Dan said, how we hear the post in our head. I just found his rebuttal, which in my opinion, is perfectly justifiable. Stuart definitely shouldn't have posted Dan's email.

I've firmly believe that dismissing an episode simply because it is a ''ratings ploy'' is wrong. Television is a business; big money is involved. In Joe's post to Meg, he said that when writing a script outline she should start with a strong opening premise that draws your audience in quickly. That is the nature of television; it pulses. NBC advertising it as a ''very special episode'' should not effect your level of enjoyment. All television is a ''ratings ploy''. Writers want the words they wrote to be heard.

[Mr Blue Sky]

True. I have to disagree about your opinion of Stu's decision to post the e-mail though. If he'd known Dan O'Shannon was going to appear on the board then no, obviously. But what were the odds against that?!? Personally I think there has to be a statute of limitations on anything that's private but is also of public interest.

I was very interested by DOS' original letter as it showed (if authentic) the real reason why a set of episodes was written. Funnily enough it was the same story arc that brought Joe Keenan on to the board, so we have to be grateful for that!

[Ali 75]

I'm guessing some of the comments in your last post were aimed at me Strat[:];-)[/:]. To be honest, David Lee (he posted on another board which I'm not sure exists anymore) often commented on how much he hated NBC advertising 'very special' Frasier episodes as they were often misleading and corny. I don't like any show being overhyped or having to resort to OTT storylines to help flagging ratings. Of course I can understand why a network does it, but it doesn't mean that I have to like it. David mentioned that NBC would often try to interfere, suggesting that they featured big name, flavour of the month guest stars like Friends did, and they tried to 'soap it up' a bit by asking them to feature more marriages, births, deaths etc... As you rightly say, a network is only concerned with ratings, but I'm glad that the Frasier producers stood their ground and didn't resort to stunt casting and rarely had to introduce these random dramatic storylines, even if it cost them a few placings in the ratings chart. I suppose with S10 struggling so badly they felt they had no choice but to go with a 'very special' dramatic storyline.

Again though, I blame NBC for causing most of Frasier's problems. Had it not been scheduled so erratically, they wouldn't have had to resort to these kind of episodes in the first place IMO.

[Mr Blue Sky]

Quote from Ali:-"I'm glad that the Frasier producers stood their ground and didn't resort to stunt casting"

That's what disappointed me so much about Bill Gates' appearance. I'd like to think that if the 200th episode occurred during a Keenan/Lloyd helmed season they would have had too much class to resort to featuring a famous celebrity (who wasn't even an actor!)

Other than that Ali, I agree with your comments regarding David Lee. DOS himself mentioned in this thread how the advertising was 'horrible and syrupy', the network is really demeaning the writing staff with that approach.

[Stratman]

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I really enjoyed the appearance by Bill Gates. I found the blatant advertising hilarious. [:]:-))[/:]

[Ali 75]

One of the funniest things I ever saw was the Frasier cast on the 'Oprah Winfrey' show trying (and failing) to find some positive things to say about Mr Gates' appearance[:]:-}[/:] I think it's safe to say that he wasn't the most popular guest star.

[Stratman]

Perhaps they were threatened by a guest star that actually made more than they did.

[Mr Blue Sky]

I think they were more than likely upset at having a 'celebrity guest star' forced upon them by NBC who no doubt wanted as much hype as possible for the 200th ep so they could sell the advertising slots for as much as possible.

It's a low road Frasier had never previously taken.

[Stratman]

Bill Gates was definitely a ratings ploy.